Comments on: Apple and Google Maps, and Defaults https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/ Unlucky in Cards Thu, 14 Nov 2013 16:58:42 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0-alpha-61516 By: Siti Internet Aziendali » Apple, le mappe vanno per il verso giusto https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573598 Thu, 14 Nov 2013 16:58:42 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573598 […] contro Apple continuano a levarsi le proteste di chi invoca l’intervento dell’antitrust per la sua pratica di legare ai suoi […]

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By: Senff https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573596 Thu, 14 Nov 2013 00:32:59 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573596 Indeed, and so the big question is why Microsoft got a lot of hell (from both users and lawyers!) for making IE the default browser in Windows, and Apple doesn’t get that for doing the exact same with Safari and iOS.

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By: John Nevill https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573585 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 22:10:13 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573585 In reply to Jahangir (@jnaina).

“A lot of folks including me want the security and safety of a slightly “walled-off garden” as a matter of choice.”

No one is suggesting you lose your choice. Stay in the garden, it’s beautiful and probably safe. Others want the choice to step outside the garden without having to climb a ladder.

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By: Jaime Lopez https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573584 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 21:48:20 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573584 I agree in principle that Apple should allow changing the default apps. I use Chrome all the time, and quite frankly I have not warmed up to Safari (although it is much better in iOS 7). Having said that, if Apple allowed changing the maps default to Google maps, Apple maps would have a very tough time becoming an equally-strong alternative. How it would otherwise collect the data necessary to improve and become a better maps service? The same argument applies to opening up the voice interface (say, allowing Google Search/Now to be used instead of Siri, or something along those lines). Google just has too much of a head start with its search and maps service. Apple needs any “unfair” advantage it can get to get ahead of the game. Is that criminal? Given the “unfair” advantage that Google has now, I am inclined to say no. If at some point Apple services (big if) becomes a serious contender for Google services, then my answer might be different.

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By: Matt https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573583 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 21:47:44 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573583 In reply to Thomas.

They have 90% of my usage. 🙂

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By: Navarr Barnier https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573582 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 21:10:49 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573582 In reply to julien51.

1) The “new” app does not work the same way as the previous. This is true, it has a different UI, and is only enforced on users as the default on brand new KitKat phones. I.e. the Nexus 5. In older phones, it’ll ask you which to use (i believe), with SMS still the default.

2) SMS are in fact sent through Google Hangouts. People who send you SMS will show up with an [SMS] tag, which when replying to is still an SMS message. When selecting a contact you can choose to send it over Google Hangouts or SMS; which can be a source of confusion, but it does not mean that SMS messages aren’t sent through hangouts.

3) Maybe not. But as the only time Hangouts is forced on them is a brand new phone with a brand new operating system, well.. it’s to be expected really that their apps will change.

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By: Matt https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573581 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:49:42 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573581 In reply to Om Malik.

Also I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting the product you use every day and have significant investment in to be better. I use an iPhone despite this failing, but every time my non-preferred app launches it frustrates me, or every time I have to copy and paste an address into Google Maps instead of just clicking it (which would launch Apple Maps).

There are already alternative apps in the App Store — why not take the logical next step from a user experience point of view and allow those to be what’s launched by default? I can’t think of any reason that’s good for users why not, and I haven’t seen any proposed.

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By: Matt https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573579 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 19:36:28 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573579 In reply to Darwin.

I’m super pro-Apple, that’s why I don’t want to switch to Android just to have my preferred browser come up when I click a link.

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By: Colin Devroe https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573578 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 19:03:11 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573578 100% agree. Obviously email is a big one but I would adore being able to set Chrome as my default browser to see if I’d prefer it. How could I possibly truly know whether or not I want to use Chrome instead of Safari without being able to set it as my default?

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By: julien51 https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573577 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:18:10 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573577 In reply to Yoav.

LOL.

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By: julien51 https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573576 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:17:39 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573576 In reply to Daniyal Khatri.

See my comment above.

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By: julien51 https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573575 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:17:18 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573575 In reply to Mark Carter (@marcardar).

Do you really expect someone who’s not a technerd to :
1) understand that the “new” app does not work in the way that the previous
2) that what is sent is not text but ‘hangout messages’ that the recipient will only read when they open G+
3) that they can look up the store for and install another SMS app?

It’s a frickin’ phone. People rightfully expect that the “phone” features just WORK.

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By: Roy https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573574 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:10:14 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573574 In reply to nikolas koskoros.

So, instead of being able to pick the app who’s creator you trust most, you prefer a fixed default? That makes no sense to me.

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By: Daniel https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573573 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:33:43 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573573 Its not only Apple, even though Google is admittedly more open, the sort of control over their eco-system is still way worse than the DoJ case you pointed out.

http://www.binarypassion.net/2013/10/do-you-remember-us-and-eu-antitrust.html

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By: Darwin https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573568 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:49:44 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573568 An idiotic post which of course makes it to Hacker News because of all the Android kids there. Anything anti-Apple does.
First Apple is not remotely a monopoly which is the only time anti-trust comes into play. This is basic grade school level knowledge btw.
Second you are flat out wrong that many of these apps cannot be replaced by 3rd party apps which others have already pointed out to you.
Third there is data from multiple sources that Apple Maps has destroyed Google Maps on iOS. Google that.

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By: Zovits Ádám https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573565 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:31:09 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573565 In reply to Jahangir (@jnaina).

“Go do your cluelesslyindignant and meritless crusade elsewhere.”
Dude, this is his blog, you can’t really send someone away from his own site 🙂

Oh, and good luck believing in the safety of your garden 😉

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By: Matt https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573563 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:56:55 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573563 In reply to Om Malik.

I’d much rather Apple just give us the same flexibility on iOS they do on OS X.

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By: Matt https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573562 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:54:17 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573562 In reply to ericdano.

It’s not that there aren’t other browsers, calendar apps, etc, it’s that when you click a link only Apple’s are launched, you’re locked into their defaults with no flexibility or control.

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By: Yoav https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573561 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:30:06 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573561 In reply to julien51.

With kitkat, Android now lets other apps register themselves as default SMS handlers. That wasn’t possible before.

http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2013/10/getting-your-sms-apps-ready-for-kitkat.html

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By: Szymon https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573560 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:47:03 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573560 @julien51 – the story is similar to Microsoft policy like Matt has mentioned it. Each time when company decides and doesn’t let the consumer decide, its value decreases. Especially on the market of new devices. Who uses (among aware, tech-savvy customers) Internet Explorer? Companies such as Apple or Google will have to understand it one day or they’ll be fated to loss the market share.

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By: Freddywang https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573559 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:39:32 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573559 Just switch to android. No big deal.

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By: Roy Tanck https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573558 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:25:51 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573558 In many important ways, Apple represents the opposite of what Open Source and WordPress are all about. That famous ‘1984’ commercial has gone from ‘iconic’ to ‘ironic’ imho.

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By: Thomas https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573557 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:01:17 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573557 “If Microsoft did this a decade ago we’d call for the DoJ to reopen their investigation. ”

Well difference is, Apple does not have a 90% market share on smartphones 🙂

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By: Rob S https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573556 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:43:13 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573556 I understand your frustration.
To highlight the difference between Microsoft and Apple though, if Microsoft were to do this, it would (at least back in the day) have affected multiple manufacturers hardware. Apple can do this because it affects only there systems and does not restrict anyone else’s.
What makes the issue more visible is that Apple’s devices, in general, occupy the higher end of consumer purchasing which seems to correlate with increased usage of services.

The reason why the DoJ, or indeed other services in, what Americans generally forget is, the majority of the world have not taken action is that there’s no monopoly activity here. Apple’s actions affects it’s own vertical product categories, however big they become. They don’t impinge on others products or prevent them offering competing options.

For myself, I am divided in opinion. I would often like for a better app or service to be linkable into the system defaults in place of the provided ones. Actually Maps isn’t one of them but Notes, Calendar, Mail and Camera are.
However being a developer i can in some ways understand the issues here. Apple’s own apps, whether they are well implemented or not, are at the least deeply integrated.
Allowing developers to connect to that integration means:
1. Ensuring the developers fully implement all the required connections
2. Having a way of monitoring the apps behaviour on those connections to prevent malicious code execution.
3. Reassuring the majority of users that this isn’t the security hell that it plainly could be.

To use Android as a comparison, Google allows a lot of swapping out of tools for defaults, but, defend it as you will, Android does not have the record of protesting against malicious code execution and security breaches that iOS does.

So once again we are in the world where allowing more accessibility to the system innards compromises security and reducing that access compromises choice.
Google feels answerable to the developer community from the casual up to the Stallman-ites.
Apple feels answerable to it’s customers at least for security issues if not for transparency.

Your preference can dictate your purchasing choice as it should.
Personally, I find Android inconsistent and bit amateur still and Win 8 Phone too shallow. And yes I have owned and sincerely tried to like both.

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By: chuck https://ma.tt/2013/11/apple-defaults/#comment-573555 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:23:18 +0000 http://ma.tt/?p=43168#comment-573555 In reply to julien51.

FYI julien… Android KitKat allows you to choose the default SMS app in the WiFi more settings. 😉

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