[00:00:05] Nathan Wrigley: Hello there and welcome to the No Script Show in our last episode called Trap or Trade Off, what Small Businesses Should Know Before Getting a website. We use the example of a local plumber to highlight that the web is for everyone. We showed that businesses don't always need to get locked into maintenance costs and restrictions of a third party platform.

Often the only technology needed for an effective online presence is HTML and CSS, which can be learned relatively quickly. However, businesses also have to persuade visitors that their services are what searches are looking for. And to do this, they need a credible brand identity too. So in this episode, we're discussing brand style guides.

These long predate the web and here we're looking at how these could be best updated for web projects. You can find the show notes and the resources for this show at the website, which is no script show slash 29. The numbers two and nine. And if you're watching this on YouTube, the link will be inside the first comment just below the subscribe and like buttons.

hint. As always, I am joined by David Waumsley. Hello David.

[00:01:18] David Waumsley: Hi Nathan. So the last time we spoke, which is about a month ago, yeah. I thought I had it planned out. What we were gonna do for this episode, we were going to, I was going to go ahead and create this brand guide and it should have been straightforward because what we've been using for our presentations, we've been using Canva and Canva's got a whole range of these brand guidelines, which you could just edit.

So I thought would make one for Paul, our plumber and his one page site will turn into something bigger. but, instead, because I hinted at it last time, it is the fact that these star guides go back a long way. generally there are document of the visuals that you'll need for your brand.

And not so much for the web. So as I started adding in things that I thought were relevant to the web. I, it took me right back 20 years to when I first started doing web design.

[00:02:14] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, nice.

[00:02:15] David Waumsley: It did really. And at the time, I used to listen to Paul Boag

[00:02:20] Nathan Wrigley: Yes.

[00:02:20] David Waumsley: And his

[00:02:22] Nathan Wrigley: Boag

[00:02:22] David Waumsley: World Podcast.

It was the only one that was available for people who were interested in making websites. Yeah.

[00:02:27] Nathan Wrigley: He was blazing a trail bike then, wasn't he really was.

[00:02:29] David Waumsley: Yeah, exactly. And it reminded me, and that's what we've called this episode, the making of the website owners manual. This was a book that Paul.

Did back in, I think 2010, which is now available for free. Actually, we'll, move on. There's a link actually where you can just get that book. But he was trying to solve this problem, which actually at the time I, I loved making websites and all the stuff that was involved. I loved that show. But what I didn't like is hearing all the stuff, all the friction that people used to have with the designer and the client who didn't necessarily understand the web the way that the designer would.

Right. And his solution was this, website owners manual. So I thought as we're quite keen for the idea that we have a sort of transparent set up, something where people who know, want to go independent can say a business like Paul, that's what we've covered last time, could make his own website really wanted something that would be similar to that in the sense that the website owner would need to know what they're doing.

So basically what's happened is that I've gone completely off this sort of very simple. you really are design identity thing and, turned it into a sort of a living document, if you like. It is carrying on if you like. What I think Paul, was trying to do with his book, which I don't think works so much, because of the fact that it, well, like his podcast, it wasn't hitting the people that he expected it to hit.

Yeah. Which was the people who wanted to build their websites. It would be more for designers. So, and it's logical because no one's going to read a book before they start to get on with their actual work, so.

[00:04:14] Nathan Wrigley: Right,

[00:04:14] David Waumsley: right. So anyway, so I, what I tried to do, so I'll get on to the point no.

Is that I wanted to show you what I've started so far because there's a lot of work and what I'm hoping you'll do and if somebody's kind enough to watch this and give comments, I'd love feedback because, this is obviously something that I make available to anyone, but, if I'm on the right track, this would be the way that I think would start every website.

[00:04:40] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it's, a, I, confess when you'd made it and sent it over to me, I was quite surprised by how in depth this working document is. I think currently it's on about 50 pages or something like that, and it covers a whole, smorgasbord of different topics. I guess I should probably pop it on the screen so that we can see where we are, we're inside of, Canva.

Like David said, this is where it's being designed. and you presumably, I think I said at, in the beginning there, there will be links to the resources and different ways to get it and what have you. but yeah, here we are. The website owner's manual. I guess page one. Yeah, we're current. We're currently looking at the editing view.

David, is that what you are desiring do

[00:05:25] David Waumsley: I think we have to do, because what I've done with this one, so, I dunno if you can read this, Nathan, at all, whether, it's I can and whether our audience can to see what we're doing. Yeah,

[00:05:38] Nathan Wrigley: basically you can click so basic, you can see the notes. They're quite clear on the screen.

I can read them out if you like, but they are very clear on the screen there.

[00:05:45] David Waumsley: Yeah. So what I think what we'll concentrate on this, we haven't talked about this at all, so we're just diving in as it comes up. But what I've done is I've set out a whole bunch of these slides on a Canva presentation. Now, the idea I had for this, 'cause I don't like the idea of just promoting.

one product out there, which is Canva. I mean, it's, wonderful. But I wanted this to be platform agnostic. So we're using it here and I've put it in our notes, because if you make something on Canva, you can save it as A-P-T-T-X document. Yeah. PowerPoint. PowerPoint Or, or if you want open source, you can use Libra office.

but what's great about it is if you use this, you've got a, kind of a way to be able to, particularly if you're on the pro version of Canva, you've got way of getting all these assets and everything to bring them into your presentation of the sort of things that you're gonna use on the website.

Yeah. and it allows for real time collaboration. So if, say, I would use it if I was working with a client, to, go through the steps in this and then use it as a way that they can add in. certain things that they wanted to add in themselves and make changes and comment on it. So you've got a, commenting set up and live collaboration if you want, on something like this.

And it also has, and I'll just go to that. It has a whiteboard option view where you can do this. So this is where I'm messing around and storing stuff for Paul's, site when we get around to making it proper. So

[00:07:25] Nathan Wrigley: it's great. Oh, I see. It's it's atomizing the bits inside the linear presentation with page numbers and you can pop those assets into different scenarios if you like.

So in this case, structure, mood, board, photos and what have you, you can pill for those and pop them into different contexts. That's actually really cool, isn't it? Yeah. So it's recycling the same content in different ways, which might be easier to. To understand, not everybody's gonna want to go through the entire 50 pager, are they?

And read all the words. That's really good.

[00:07:55] David Waumsley: Well, it was just a sort of, you need a, I think 'cause no project runs in a sort of logical order. You'll probably, when you're trying to fill in the idea of this manual is that you fill in all of the things that you'll need to have for your website. So it will be this style guide, which you'll use offline and online, which will tell you how your business, what its tone of voice is.

Yeah. What it stands for, what assets it uses, and the style of those assets. But in order to get there in some ways, and that's what Canva has, it has a presentation which we're seeing here. And then it also has a little bit like Figma. It has a whiteboard. So all I need to do is to link to this, and this is just a place where I can just zoom into any bit.

Yeah. and play around with some design ideas, which I'm doing here. A dark and a light mode.

[00:08:42] Nathan Wrigley: Right, right.

[00:08:43] David Waumsley: Yeah. That's nice,

[00:08:44] Nathan Wrigley: isn't it?

[00:08:45] David Waumsley: Yeah. And then you could just store some of your photos that you might want for some of this and, other things like structure, when I'm trying to work out the structure of this site's gonna be, and of course what you could do is, mess around in here, and have all the assets in one place, and then you can take that and once you're happy with it, then you can start to put it into the star guide or the manual as we've called it here.

Does that make sense?

[00:09:12] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that does make sense. That's a nice repurposing of all of those, different bits and pieces. And I think the, obviously the, website owners manual is gonna be like, like you said, like a working document. You're gonna be going through it and making sure that all of the boxes are ticked.

But the, bit that you just showed us, that whiteboard approach, that's like a, nice first pass. It just gives you an idea of. I don't know. Is this colour palette suitable for you? Do you like gen, generally speaking, do you like the layout of these pages and does the structure of the website look right to you?

Yeah, it's nice, really visual and and I suspect that more or less anybody online these days would be able to pass that information. these kind of interfaces are really normal now, aren't they?

[00:09:54] David Waumsley: Yeah. And I think that's it. It's just like Figma where it's got an open whiteboard, right? You need a sort of fi fiddle document when you're messing around.

I'll chuck a load of things in, does that look nice? And then I'll commit to it later in the manual. And I've got another link here. So for those who are listening, this may very difficult to understand, but what you're seeing is a slide and it says the site owners manual, it's a customised.

Customizable Guide for creating an effective brand guide. And then supporting resources is the link within Canva that goes to the whiteboard. And there's also a link, and of course you could use something else, which I've got going to a Google document. And what's quite nice about Google Documents now is because when you get to your sort of content that's going into your webpage, you probably want to get your page structure.

So you've got the tabs where you can line those up, which I've done here, and then you can start to put in the different sections that you're likely to have on each of these pages. And, go ahead with that. So I've started doing something like that.

[00:10:57] Nathan Wrigley: Is there any reason that you've, you've gone for a Google Doc over embedding that same information inside of Canva?

Is it just a superior sort of text interface, I suppose, with Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:12] David Waumsley: I, just felt, I mean, you could do it within Canva because of course it's, it works, it also has a sort of docs area as well, so it works, like, yeah, it doesn't, have the tab in though.

[00:11:23] Nathan Wrigley: okay.

[00:11:24] David Waumsley: So,

[00:11:24] Nathan Wrigley: and the tab, the tabbing being that column on the left in a Google doc, whereby you can Yes.

Headers and, H twos and h threes, you can organise the document and click through to it. Exactly. it's just a, if you're just dwelling on text, it's a superior interface, isn't it? There's just no clutter. Nothing's getting in the way and, okay. Okay. But nice to see that Canva supports the ability to link outside of itself.

Yes.

[00:11:47] Nathan Wrigley: To other things as well. So although it's obviously in a different space, it's there. You can link to it directly. Okay, great.

[00:11:55] David Waumsley: That would be the idea. And then I've got, I've just put this in as a bit of a preface. If someone's coming to this for the first time, I dunno if you can read that out.

'cause it's actually quite,

[00:12:04] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. Do you mean read what's on the, in the notes or read what's on the screen?

[00:12:08] David Waumsley: Oh, on the screen please.

[00:12:09] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I can do that. Yeah. so the website owners manual is a project management tool, a collaborative hub for strategic planning and brand assets like Paul Boag book, which I guess is a link there as well of the same name.

It aims to give owners control over the legal, technical, and business responsibilities that they inherit with website ownership. It encourages independence and inclusive design through web standards, agile development, and the indie web. Again, links are provided in there.

[00:12:38] David Waumsley: Yeah. And and they are, and the links for the moment, 'cause you don't probably haven't seen, they are put on our site for the moment.

So we might actually do an episode talking about each of these things. Agile development, agile

[00:12:51] Nathan Wrigley: and web standards and, yeah. Okay.

[00:12:53] David Waumsley: That's,

good. So that's a link really, which is, I've just taken the same format here where you explain what that means and why it matters and the core principles that you would follow and why website owners might want to apply this.

And it's the same with Agile as well, so, so everything from this owner's manual has got a link going out to something where it needs some greater explanation.

[00:13:16] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[00:13:17] David Waumsley: and I've put some principles on the side of this as well as the sort of introduction to this is that these probably need some work, but principles are business ones that we, tackle problems before.

Product. so we, we don't say I want a website, we want a website because it solves the problem that we're not getting enough business. we always, do it that kind of way, justifications before dependencies. So instead of jumping on the, heavier software that we'll get as a website, we will justify what we need in terms of technology so we don't have to, support dependencies, that we didn't need to, local skills before global.

This is my own branded, corporate platforms and that we should try and contain our website to, to, if you like, localised skills rather than Have a dependency on people. Millions of miles away.

[00:14:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:14:16] David Waumsley: so, and that way. favour simplicity before automation on things. So, often, but, well, I'll get clients come to me who want something that's automated, and then if you really drill down, they would've been better.

Just keeping it simple in the first place. And the automate automation actually makes things so complex that they can't manage it. So I've put that in, terms of design content before design, meaning that you get your words and then you design around that first, users' needs before designers or stakeholders.

ego, So it stops being an art project, objectives before personal taste and for the web, but it would've some general views about, fluid before fixed units, mobile before desktop semantic bus, semantics before styling, performance before bloat and accessibility before complexity. So

[00:15:14] Nathan Wrigley: there's a lot there, but

[00:15:15] David Waumsley: there is a lot there.

Yeah. So it's really just trying to set some standards, if you like, which I think are standards that we all hold to, but we just very easily lose them if we don't bake them in at the beginning of our projects.

[00:15:30] Nathan Wrigley: yeah. Okay. and I guess you're just setting the groundworks a little bit, aren't you?

These are the kind of things that are gonna come later, but they're, worth thinking about at the start, so, yeah. Okay.

[00:15:41] David Waumsley: Yeah.

[00:15:41] Nathan Wrigley: Laying the groundwork. Yeah.

[00:15:43] David Waumsley: And I've put again in notes here. I mean, designers might want to use this whole thing or the next level of, if you like, the higher level.

Navigation, which we're just gonna work through here to remind, clients of the unique features of the web and of their responsibilities for having a website and also to head off, potential friction that you can get. So for example, on that, and I've just put this in notes, it makes it easier to, see by going through this process, see, when a platform's needed rather than picking a platform for the client and then subsequently having to justify it.

just on that point, it's probably worth mentioning. There is another website owner's manual. I've stolen Paul Boag name, but there is another one from someone we know, as well in the WordPress space. Yeah. And in some ways that's what theirs does, isn't it? That it's, a document for. To give to website owners to explain the work that goes into maintaining something like WordPress.

So if you're like this, one is a slightly different thing, and the fact that you would try and avoid, you wouldn't need something like that anyway because you would already decide that the client, whether WordPress was the most suitable

[00:17:02] Nathan Wrigley: Right.

[00:17:03] David Waumsley: Thing that was project. Well, that,

[00:17:04] Nathan Wrigley: that was your second point on the business principles, wasn't it?

Justification before dependencies,

[00:17:09] David Waumsley: Yeah.

[00:17:10] Nathan Wrigley: If WordPress isn't the right thing, then that's not the right thing,

[00:17:14] David Waumsley: and that's always been the thing that's sticking with me. I mean, for me it was fine because I came in as somebody who did WordPress, so everybody got WordPress. But of course, the person bringing the clients to me hadn't necessarily gone through the process of whether they needed to be managing WordPress for the job that they had.

So,

[00:17:28] Nathan Wrigley: yeah,

[00:17:28] David Waumsley: so it wasn't covered. also going through the process here would provide the tools to clients to be able to, assess. Other people's sites. so it avoids, 'cause this is often, I think you'll, know that a lot of people will come to a designer and say, and I've seen this on the website and I would like that on my website, this navigation, this slider, this bar.

And I think this is always problem because then you end up with a situation where you might know that this isn't in their best interest. This isn't good for usability. It might not help them to achieve what they want to achieve. So by letting the client go through this kind of thing, there's less likelihood that they will come up with bad ideas, which you'll have to correct 'em on.

Yeah. Which creates friction or that you'll have to get into criticising another website. So it's to head off

[00:18:19] Nathan Wrigley: that, yeah. it feels that, although this is, well we're still on the preface, aren't we? It, there's a lot of conversation to be had here just laying out the groundworks before the, before anything really starts.

[00:18:31] David Waumsley: this is, these are the notes in a way. If you are a designer, I suppose, what's the benefits of going through this approach?

[00:18:38] Nathan Wrigley: yeah,

[00:18:38] David Waumsley: on this one?

[00:18:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:18:38] David Waumsley: Also, it, going through this approach from the beginning to the end, and I expect if you were a designer showing this to a client, you could do it in a very quick conversation.

You'd go through 10 slides to just to know you're on the same, in the same place. But I think it positions designers problem solving to avoid that kind of problem that you often end up with where a project turns into some community art project. where everybody's saying, what do you think of this?

What do you know? It gets it back to the, science of it. And I think it just. By going through a process like this, it reduces that need for these torturous contracts that people often set up. 'cause they've been burnt by clients wanting to change things that last minute and all that kind of stuff.

[00:19:22] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah,

[00:19:22] David Waumsley: we can get around that.

[00:19:23] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. That's an interesting position of it as well. Okay.

[00:19:27] David Waumsley: Okay,

[00:19:27] Nathan Wrigley: so moving on, I guess when the next one,

[00:19:30] David Waumsley: right? Yeah, so I'll move on. So we've got a table of contents and this is the higher level of, how this kind of document is structured. And I've tried to structure this into different sections.

So, table of Contents has got this sort of first section, which is the, content, which is really the missing and message, which we convert into Symantec, HTML and make. So it makes the web accessible to all people and devices, which other mediums can't do. And then on that, so it's going in order.

You would start with that when you are starting your project, what your. Mission is, then you would move into styling, which is the visual design that objectively improves the usability of the content and forges an emotional, connection with the target audience. So that would be the next level. Then we be looking at technology, what's necessary to deliver the message, so you want to start with the rule of lease power to reduce unnecessary lock in and maintenance.

And then finally there needs to be a section, I think, which is covering progress. So you need to plan for the fact that the web is constantly changing. Businesses change as well. So there's inevitable change here, and you need a way to be able to evolve, ideally in an agile way where you are incrementally improving all the time.

[00:20:56] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah,

[00:20:57] David Waumsley: nice. So, so what's happened here is that, if I just bring this up here, again, people who are listening to this might find it a bit difficult, but on. That sort of content, table of content lays out these different sections. And here you can link to these.

[00:21:12] Nathan Wrigley: These are

[00:21:12] David Waumsley: links different. Yes. Within the

[00:21:15] Nathan Wrigley: document link.

That's an internal link within, inside this Canva board, you can just shuffle backwards and forwards.

[00:21:20] David Waumsley: Exactly. I can go back here. So I go, oh.

[00:21:22] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, that's what that arrow's for. Okay.

[00:21:24] David Waumsley: I just, yeah, that was

[00:21:24] Nathan Wrigley: a nice, like a bit of graphic, but it's not, it's actually a link.

[00:21:28] David Waumsley: It's a link back. So the idea is that, so if I was going through this, how I imagine I'm gonna go through this as a designer, I'd just say, oh, let's start your project.

Let's go through the things you need to do. You, we need to start with your content, what you're trying to achieve here. What's, your brand? What's its message? Then we would go through that first one, which would be the foundations and strategy, who you are, why should anyone care? And there were different sections.

Nathan, you're much better at reading. Do you wanna read out what's

[00:21:58] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I can read them out. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, sure. so we, we've clicked the first link in that table of contents document and we've ended up a foundation and strategy. And this is the Who are You and why Should Anyone Care Piece.

And, it's broken up into five different sections, the first of which is brand purpose and vision. So why the business exists? Emotions, it invokes core values and aims. Then moving on, target audience, who are the personas, the demographics, what is the visitor behaviour and what are the challenges they may present?

Market position and statement comes next, where you sit and what you stand for, which is in effect your elevator pitch. Two final ones, competitor analysis. and in this we're looking at competitor strengths and weaknesses, that sort of swap thing that everybody does. Differentiation, opportunities, how you can stand out.

And then finally, more towards the website itself. SEO stuff. sanity checking. Achievable traffic. Yeah. Oh Lord. content. No. Bring it. Build it, and they will come. David, that's all you need. content gaps, keyword competition. search intent and eat. EEAT. Which I actually have forgotten. What's that?

[00:23:07] David Waumsley: well, it used to be just eat with the one E.

so it's, I think it's experience, expertise, blah. I forgot what the A is. And anyway, it's

[00:23:17] Nathan Wrigley: all

[00:23:18] David Waumsley: the

[00:23:18] Nathan Wrigley: stuff. Quickly move it on.

[00:23:20] David Waumsley: It's what? Google check. I should write it out in full. What Google uses authority is the A and ah,

[00:23:26] Nathan Wrigley: you go. That's it. That's what I remember.

[00:23:27] David Waumsley: A trust or something like that for the T.

There you

go.

[00:23:29] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:23:29] David Waumsley: It's all about whether you are a legit business and you show yourself to be somebody very serious. It's a key thing that Google always looking into whether there are signals out there that you are a serious business, so they can rank you higher rather than somebody, particularly if you are doing something which is professional, if it's medical advice, they'll definitely want to see lots of the expertise, some background before they'll favour you.

yeah, so the, that. So again, with each of these, this is the idea. This is where you end up with so many pages. So if I click on any of these individual subcategories, like the first one being brand purpose, vision, then it will take you into Yep.

[00:24:06] Nathan Wrigley: Being moved over. Right. Got it.

[00:24:08] David Waumsley: We won't cover that because that's where I'll put all the sort of tips and that's where you'll write in what they are.

So that's the bit that we'll complete. This is just the overview. so that's the idea of foundations here. So you, hopefully you'll go through this and you'll get an idea about where they position themselves, what is their elevator pitch. with each of these, there are little, ways of being able to do that.

That there are statements you can create, which somebody can pre-fill in. So you know, you are, for a certain type of business, you are your name and your brand is a whatever it is.

[00:24:45] Nathan Wrigley: it's almost like magic tags in an email system, isn't it? You can Yeah. Substitute, substitute the correct phrasing and hopefully something sensible pops out.

Yeah.

[00:24:53] David Waumsley: So the idea is when you go through this, you give 'em all the tools that are around the, there are loads of them for people who do this, that help people to try and come up with their own brand purpose. Because I think if I just go back, let me just come out of this, I just go into the notes here.

I think I put something on that. yeah,

[00:25:11] Nathan Wrigley: you did. Shall I just read those out? 'cause

[00:25:14] David Waumsley: actually I'll go back. Yeah. Okay. I'll just go. is that the one I'm on? Yes. That one. Yes, please.

[00:25:20] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So I'm looking at the, the foundation and strategy document, and it says the following. this is often the hardest part.

Creating a brand requires introspection and in many businesses, people, sorry, and many in business are people of action who employ their gut to adapt to situations online. We have to define upfront a purpose and target audience to cut through the noise and avoid being for no one in particular.

Online. Customers can't meet you first, so your brand identity has to act as your actual digital handshake. and on the plus side, this can act as a use useful north star for general business decisions and reduce the need to compete solely on price. I guess with the, as we come later to Paul the plumber, yeah, this, that's a fairly straightforward proposition, isn't it?

the narrative around what do you do is pretty straightforward. but in more complicated situations where your bus business isn't maybe quite as obvious as that, or you've got some strange niche within a niche, then this kind of stuff starts to matter more and more. You've gotta cut through the noise and make sure that you are, it's clear what you do and that you are trustworthy and reliable and what have you.

[00:26:37] David Waumsley: And I think it's quite interesting 'cause I started to do the exercises and, I'll finish this off with Paul properly, but you start to get, even when you get to target audience, you think, oh, well that's just anywhere in linkage. He is a local plumber and he does these particular areas. But when you start to dig into it, you start to think about.

Actually, who are the people that really come? Well, it tends to, the job of calling in the plumber tends to fall more on, on women. And when you look at it, he is got a particular, range of women. generally there'll be over 30 and, generally, householders. but he's also got other people as well that he deals with because he's dealing with landlords as well.

Yeah. So a different, so it's quite interesting how you start to get into it and even though it seems straightforward and you think it's everybody in that area, actually it's not. And they've got

[00:27:27] Nathan Wrigley: characteristics. Yeah. So I've got, you are not living in the UK at the minute, but you'll know this problem.

So I've got a perfect example of where this goes wrong. And that is, for example, if I did a Google search for, let's say where I live, Yorkshire Plumber.

What I know will happen is the first. Set of cert results will be some content farm that is probably based out of, I don't know, the southeast of the uk.

And there are like, there are call centre for plumbers basically.

[00:28:02] David Waumsley: Yes.

[00:28:02] Nathan Wrigley: And you go there and it's pretty obvious that this landing page, which where the word Yorkshire appears, is just some dynamic data that's been inserted in, it's probably an identical page for Lancashire and Wales and North Umbr and whatever.

[00:28:17] David Waumsley: Yes.

[00:28:18] Nathan Wrigley: And it, but yet they win the SEO battle. But the minute I see that generic nonsense, it's like next. You just, there's no depth to it. There's absolutely no credibility to it. You know that the person that's gonna come has no interest in the area. They're probably gonna have to drive miles. You're just a, you're just a data point to them.

You're not gonna be somebody that you can build a relationship with and have Paul, the plumber's phone number in actually is a contact in your phone so that you can call him up at three in the morning when the tap suddenly bursts open. Yes. so yeah, that's, an example of where this sort of stuff really trumps the, sort of, I don't know, the automated promise of what, what the, on what the world can, sorry, what the web can bring.

We've got a webpage, but we don't look trustworthy.

[00:29:08] David Waumsley: Yes.

[00:29:09] Nathan Wrigley: Presumably it still works. I don't know.

[00:29:11] David Waumsley: Yeah. It's interesting and I think we'll come back to Paul in this site a later point. So I can go into some of these things. 'cause there is some quite interesting thing about what. SEO strategists say about plumbing websites, which I would, I just suggest we don't do, but it's another conversation.

Okay. I'll move on with, I'll move on with, the next slide that was here. So the next thing, which is in our content section on the higher level is defining the, content and voice guidelines. So, basically how do you communicate? so there, I'll read these out. There's the three sections on this.

Each have got their own page, which is, brand voice, which is your tone, your language style and personality. So there are tools again, which we'll go into later, as I fill this out on how to come up with that, but often with that kind of thing. In fact, let me just go to the link so I can just cover that quickly.

Just come out here. I think I might have done some of this, filled it in. Already for Paul. Yeah. So I mean, there are a few tips on how to do that, but I put in the slide, so if somebody has to fill that in, there are tips on how you find your brand voice. You can imagine your brand as a person, in this case, personable, like Chris Packham, the eco broadcaster.

[00:30:32] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:30:32] David Waumsley: Am I on?

[00:30:32] Nathan Wrigley: Yep.

[00:30:33] David Waumsley: there, I mean there are different adjectives you can use as well to define yourself. You can use the this, but not that way of being, professional but not stuffy funny, but not mean as a way of trying to get to your character. Yeah. read reviews. That's often what a lot of copywriters say.

Use the words that people use to describe you as a good way of getting your brand there and creating a do's and don'ts list of what sort of things you would say. wouldn't say so lemme just go back.

[00:31:07] Nathan Wrigley: it's an interesting world for Paul, isn't it? Because he's got a sort of step into a world, which I'm imagining is very unfamiliar to him.

if you are a, I don't know, if you're a financial institution and you've got a marketing team, presumably the people on the marketing team are really savvy with this kind of stuff. But having that conversation with Paul, I think would, it's gonna be weird. It's for a little while. It's gonna be really trying to drag Paul through the hoops here.

I imagine there'll be a little bit, not resentment towards it, but do we really need to do this? Can't we just build a website?

[00:31:40] David Waumsley: I know.

[00:31:41] Nathan Wrigley: No,

[00:31:41] David Waumsley: I, I know and I think that's the, in a way, I, this should be a checklist. I think, if your clients can't do that, you can skip over it. You say, well, shall I fill that in for you?

From what I know of you, you tell me if it's wrong.

[00:31:54] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. That's an interesting, that's an interesting position as well, isn't it? Is you in effect, are. Being the helpful voice of reason. It's not like, okay, unless Paul does all of this document needs to go in the bin. That's the prof. That's where your professionalism drops in.

I mean, you know what a plumber does. There's no, there's really not much of that industry which is disguised and unfamiliar to you, so you really could Right. But I guess if it's some industry that you've never heard of, X companies making widgets, which they sell to this entire industry that you've never heard of, Maybe not so much. Yeah. But for Paul, do you know what, I think that's a bit of a value add as well. I think if you can show this to Paul and, persuade Paul that, you know what we, I can do some of the heavy lifting here. I've done this before. That's, quite nice. yeah. Probably reassures Paul that you are credible as well.

[00:32:48] David Waumsley: And I think just going through the, it's like anything, if you have to come in and you've got a whole bunch, which is on the individual pages of how you can get this information outta people, I think this just a way, but it's really about making sure that you haven't missed something along the way and that you are logically building up the website.

So,

[00:33:06] Nathan Wrigley: yeah,

[00:33:06] David Waumsley: I mean, my little note on this whole section, if you like, brand voice writing guidelines. And that is the fact that, people buy from people. So we have to cut through the impersonal nature of the web. And this isn't creative writing, but it's reputation, control. because people, when they go to your website, so when people go to Paul's website, that should reflect his voice.

So when he turns up. with his spanners, they're not surprised. 'cause he's completely different to what expected, you

[00:33:35] Nathan Wrigley: know, what that is the, that's exactly it. That encapsulates it in a nutshell. That, that SEO farm that I talked about, which You land on the page and it's got the word Yorkshire, but it's also got some sort of generic stock photo of the area in which I live, and then stock photos of happy plumbers getting out of happy vans in indiscriminate location that's doing nothing like, that's like 2010 stuff.

Whereas if I see Paul and I know that this is Paul, this is what he'll look like, this is what he'll show up. Like, here's, him. Yes. it's so much more authentic and powerful and I, actually think there's, a weird undercurrent here of people just wanting to get back to the real world fatigue of what the internet might have brought.

If you know what I mean. That's an ephemeral thing that I can't really grasp hold of, but that there is some sort of reaction and some requirement for local things, for local people. yeah. And a sort of, pushing away a bit of the internet. So we've gotta blend those two things. Use the internet, but be authentic and real and local and all of those things.

Yeah.

[00:34:46] David Waumsley: And not authentic. Yeah.

[00:34:48] Nathan Wrigley: Yep.

[00:34:49] David Waumsley: let's, move on. So, so now we'd be going into the slides. If I was back to my main table of contents, we'd be moving into the visual design bit here. So visual identity, creating an emotional connection is how I've done this. So I think you need your. Well, sorry, I did skip over that.

I'll just go back a little bit on the, okay. Voice on the content and voice. Obviously, it's a good time at the very beginning to decide what types of content you might be putting out there, whether you will do blog posts, whether you'll have special landing pages that you'll need to make, whether you do social media directories, flyers, and all that kind of stuff.

I think it's good to know the range of written content that you're going to put out there. And also, this is a place where you would define, and again, this is another page, area of writing guidelines, which would also do something which I've never done before, which would actually lay out some of your best practises for web copy.

So it would be the same thing. We showed last time, which would be that, crib sheet, if you like, of things that you do, you write for skimmers and you Yep. you start with the, important stuff and work down, but also it would include other things like. Meta description templates, how you might mark up your images, what logic you use to do that, and that, that kind of stuff.

so we've talked about this on other shows there, where often there isn't a logic to how you might, when you're doing the website, right, the descriptions or the title tags in a certain way. it might be your business name and then about your business name, and then contact, or it might be something else entirely.

So setting these things up, I think is good for before you build the website, because then you've got some consistency. And the same with, with how you mark up your images, what rules you follow. Okay. Okay. so yeah, we'll

[00:36:41] Nathan Wrigley: go two. Did you skip six out by the way?

[00:36:43] David Waumsley: Did I skip?

[00:36:44] Nathan Wrigley: I think you went from five there.

[00:36:47] David Waumsley: yeah. With content and then we go into the next, lemme

[00:36:49] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, no apologies. No, I think, yeah. So there you go. Six. There

[00:36:54] David Waumsley: we

[00:36:54] Nathan Wrigley: go. Okay. Seven. All right.

[00:36:57] David Waumsley: Yeah, I think this is Moving on to the images. Oh, sorry. No, I did skip one, didn't I? What happened? Yeah.

[00:37:03] Nathan Wrigley: Visual,

identity.

[00:37:05] David Waumsley: Yeah. So moving into, so now we've assumed that we know the content we're writing, that we've got the rules on our content.

We've got our voice that we're writing with, so then we're enhancing the web. We're starting with that semantic, HDML, effectively, and then adding in. So, I think the important thing about a visual identity is that it should be congruent with the, brand's written voice and message. It needs to stick with that and not be a, should be choosing on what is object.

Best representing the brand that we've defined to the users, rather than making it some subjective art project. and I think also when we're doing our visual identity, it's important to remember that when it comes to the web, not everybody is going to see what you see as well. So, we're adding a layer of visuals to, Add to the written content, it shouldn't be as a replacement for it because some people aren't going to see it. Screen readers, search bots obviously don't see the visuals, and increasingly people have preferences where they may have, high contrast themes on their, or they put it in reader mode or they have a monochrome screen.

So I think that all needs to be told to a client as well, so they understand what the visuals are doing. But then we would define things like our logo, things that we would include in there, whether it's got a dark or light mode. we need to probably have a stacked and horizontal version of it.

We need to probably have a fon and maybe an open graph image as well that we're going to use as a format if we're, going to putting things out that go into Facebook or

yeah. Twitter or something like that. Not Twitter. X x. So, I mean, that's where you would use it as a normal. So here, if I just go to that link there, I've already started to make some of his logos in the different formats here.

And I'd do that on the whiteboard and I'd make it over, to here. So that would be available. 'cause then you could just download it from camera. Yeah. And use it in your projects as you needed it. Yeah.

[00:39:16] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So each of those little assets that we see, so the logo, the light version, the dark version, they, within the Canva book, you could click on those and download them from the asset page and things like that.

Could you?

[00:39:27] David Waumsley: Yes,

[00:39:27] Nathan Wrigley: exactly. Yeah. Okay. There you go. Right. Wow. Gosh, look at

[00:39:30] David Waumsley: that. Yeah. I need to go back to where we was here. So that was, yeah, we

[00:39:33] Nathan Wrigley: were on seven.

[00:39:35] David Waumsley: Ah, okay. So we're moving on. Yes, we did that one. And then there's images and meet. Yeah, it was six I think we were on before. Yeah. Oops, hold on. I keep moving there.

Visual identity. Yeah. So logos to that. And then we'll pick our colours again. I love a format for this one, but we'll want to make sure that we're observing certain things, work criteria on, contrast ratios. In fact, I can do that, actually, I can just go here, but,

[00:40:04] Nathan Wrigley: oh yeah. Nice. Again, it just links to Yeah, look at that.

[00:40:06] David Waumsley: Yeah.

[00:40:07] Nathan Wrigley: Lovely.

[00:40:07] David Waumsley: So, I mean, this is still work to be done. So there's a format so when you go to the next client, you can swap out the sort of way that you just changed the colours over here, so it would make it easier, but it just means that you, it's not so easy to navigate back. 'cause I'm not sure where I've clicked at number

[00:40:25] Nathan Wrigley: six.

You were at, I think six.

[00:40:28] David Waumsley: Yeah, we want that. So I was just showing how that's going. And typography is the same. You've set that out and fonts you would choose those. I've, put that. And I think in style guides they tend to put them in the same thing, but I think fonts, there's enough to write about, the decision making on fonts, whether you're using system fonts, for performance or whether you're going to use them and where you're getting them from and licences and all that sort of stuff.

So I've, got a different section for those. then the next is, the slider, which is looking at images and media guidelines where we want to set those up. And again, there are four overview units to this one. and this is about making content easy and enjoyable to consume. That's why we have media and images.

So we'll set up. And again, these have their own pages. a photography style that we're going to use, whether there's a certain mood, whether there's certain subjects which we incorporate in our, which is pretty simple, I think, with a plumber. it's largely going to be them doing some plumbing, but whether we use any filter effects, in their case, they've got a, standard, rounding of the borders of the images.

Right.

[00:41:38] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[00:41:39] David Waumsley: Yeah, so that's the format. we'd also discuss here as well, image specifications. So the file format that we're going to use and the support that we're, because one might want to use WebP with a fallback of a JPEG or something, or we might just say, yeah, no, it's okay. The support for Web P is okay.

So we would define that ahead of time and probably define what sort of aspect ratios we're gonna have for different types of content, whether in certain situations we're using square image in other ones, whether we're using standard, what is it, 16 over nine ratio? Yeah,

And again, audio and visuals with some things that would need to be considered there. Autoplay

[00:42:23] Nathan Wrigley: policies. Yeah. Paul needs a podcast. I think and a YouTube channel. Actually, Paul could probably do really well out of a YouTube channel, to be honest, but maybe not a podcast. Sorry. Well,

[00:42:33] David Waumsley: it was actually, and actually on that first one page site we built, there was a video which,

[00:42:39] Nathan Wrigley: yes,

[00:42:39] David Waumsley: followed from the web.

So yeah, there might be that, and Icon Systems as well. So there's a separate page for this where I can put in the notes where you can find lots of these icons. So you can define these ahead without kind of moving in, which, which is your gonna be, your style and how you'll go about that. now we'll move on to next thing, which is still, I think in the sort of range of the visuals, no, it's not, sorry, it's, into the sort of technology element Of web components and it's, using the power of web conventions with this. I'll put some notes in here as well on this one, so,

[00:43:15] Nathan Wrigley: Okay.

[00:43:16] David Waumsley: Shall I read this?

[00:43:18] Nathan Wrigley: yeah, you could, I guess.

[00:43:20] David Waumsley: Okay. The, really the point on the notes that go with this slider is the fact that the web is interactive.

That we need to be able to tab mouse, click, finger tap to links and buttons. And we should, in the process for that, should be able to get visual feedback or audio feedback. If you are, somebody uses a screen reader and often these things are forgotten about. So this is a, key thing to do that visitors need to understand our ui.

So conventions are our best friend. there's a book, don't make me think, which very much

[00:43:51] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:43:52] David Waumsley: Says about the idea of just stick with what people understand. Keep it simple as you possibly can. Don't go and do crazy stuff. Do crazy stuff if you like, you might win some awards for doing it, but you're probably gonna lose a load of visitors.

So,

[00:44:04] Nathan Wrigley: yeah.

[00:44:05] David Waumsley: You need the pockets if you wanna experiment. and I've just put a bit in there about the fact that the, it's generally good to test all of the components that you are adding and keep it simple as you go, because. We're used to the fact that we can, there are lots of design systems out there, but they do have a history of breaking conventions.

So the classic one is removing link underlines, which is what Twitter's bootstrap did for version three. So millions of people there, basically those people who were relying only on colour to see what will link, many, people were just excluded from the web on those sites. Yeah. 'cause they can't see what's the link.

Yeah. And the same thing is even Google with its material design managed to replace, input titles for place, for placeholders on form inputs. So of course that causes a complete nightmare for someone trying to fill in a form. Yeah. So, yeah. So my guidelines on this one or something to remind ourselves is that we want to test for ourselves anything that we're adding, which should encourage us not to add more stuff than we need to onto our website.

[00:45:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. It's, interesting how this is, useful to explain to the client, but also useful as a mnemonic for yourself. These things need to be taken into account because it is easy to forget some of those bits and pieces. I mean, hopefully if you've been in this business for any length of time, they're a bit ingrained, but they may not be.

It might be that some of those things do drop off the radar a little bit and just having a mnemonic to say, wait, hang on. Have a think.

[00:45:38] David Waumsley: Yes. Well, that's the idea with this. I, if you can put so ahead of this, it might solve some problems because if, if it was the first chat you're having with somebody and you just go over, look, these are the kind of, this is better people than me who've worked out all this stuff about the web who had these kind of principles.

If you like that we should work to it heads it off. Because what's likely to happen is that if you don't say something about trying to keep things simple when it comes to these units and the fact that. What on somebody else's website isn't necessarily good for your needs. You might cut down the people who just say, I want this navigation.

So, right. I think for Paul's site, when we go for the navigation to keep it really, simple for him, we'll have a, instead of a really complex menu, we'll have a menu page, which will just Right,

[00:46:27] Nathan Wrigley: okay. Yep,

[00:46:28] David Waumsley: Goal to, oh, okay.

[00:46:30] Nathan Wrigley: yeah.

[00:46:30] David Waumsley: These sort

[00:46:31] Nathan Wrigley: of things. Something really visual, easy to take in.

Yeah. Okay.

[00:46:34] David Waumsley: Yeah, exactly. And makes it easy to maintain and stuff like that. And it's the same with sliders. you take on, what people need to be aware is that you take on a whole bunch of responsibilities, which later you could get fined for, because you haven't thought about those people who need to tab their way around their site or need it to feed back to them in an audio way, because they use screen readers.

Yeah. So it's a way of just trying to, keep. Add what's needed rather than what looks cool on another person's side. Yeah.

[00:47:04] Nathan Wrigley: yeah,

[00:47:04] David Waumsley: so yeah, so you would, this would be web components where you decide the sort of things that you would need, whether you do need tool tips, whether you use, details and summary as a, we will do that 'cause there'll be frequently asked questions thing and what our button stylings are.

We'll have some animation guidelines, where again, we probably want to make sure we honour people's user preferences. If they hate it, then we're not going to show them animation and we'll have some things on there and we'll have some sort of spaces system that would write down. So again, if, even if say I did the site in simple HTML and CSS, it might be useful to, for anybody who had to take over from me, 'cause I'm run down by a bus to know what system was used to create those spacing so they can apply the same, Let me move on. This is going on a bit, so let me move on to the next thing. Did

[00:47:57] Nathan Wrigley: Miss, did you miss out the,

[00:48:00] David Waumsley: SEO team? I did miss the

[00:48:00] Nathan Wrigley: one.

[00:48:02] David Waumsley: SEO. Yes. You're right. So, next thing, again, SEO here. Now this is where we might dig into it a little bit more. most of this will be just reminder stuff. I mean, I've already got links to it.

There'll be content strategy, how much you think that somebody is going to publish. I think in Paul's case, we would just have a few key articles that might help him rather than the blog,

[00:48:25] Nathan Wrigley: unless he's got the YouTube channel, in which case yes. Doing it all the time. But yeah, I think Paul, it's fairly unlikely that Paul's gonna be producing a

[00:48:34] David Waumsley: Yeah.

[00:48:35] Nathan Wrigley: With blog posts. I doubt. Yeah.

[00:48:36] David Waumsley: I thought for Paul, what it might be, might be useful for him because he is, he's a single person with his wife just taking the calls for him. Emergency plumbing, which is popular. He might want to have an article which tells people. That, is it really emergency? Do you need to pay more for me to be called out now?

Yeah. These are a few things you might be able to do and then call me in the normal hours and save yourself some money. Yeah, so you could have an article about that.

[00:49:01] Nathan Wrigley: yep.

[00:49:02] David Waumsley: sorry. Technical, SEO. So that would be about, structuring data and schemas and stuff, what you're going to include on that. pay speed targets.

You might want to set an indexing considerations what, kind of, structure you're gonna have and which you're going to put in. We'll cover this later 'cause I've actually done the work on Paul's. and there might be something as well about local SEO. So you'll cover here. What would you know? What would be the rules on setting up the Google business profile, which is probably gonna get you most of your work, I think, as a local plumber and whether you want to get into things like geolocation tagging.

and again, we're back in with our E-E-A-T-E. Yeah. Yes. And things like that. And QR codes as well. you might be something you wanted to set up. That mean that became a big thing, didn't it? On your advertising elsewhere, you'd have a QR code to come to your website where they wanted the same, let me move on to the next thing.

So the next one would be applications. Again, there's just a section here where you might want a different page, which I've set up, where you would cover the sort of profile images and the sizes. And again, if you're doing a website, it's good to see how the same brand identity is going to go to different applications like social media.

So it might have a different. sizing of your photographs that you do there and different types of templates that you have. Again, the Google business profile, you might put some more details about what photos you're gonna require for that email. Again, it might be something that you set up that needs to be branded.

And same with anything else. Any, directories or review listings or stuff. So they're on the separate page. And finally, I think on, oh no, not finally.

[00:50:49] Nathan Wrigley: There was a 13 as well. There's one more after this.

[00:50:51] David Waumsley: Yes, we've got testing and tracking something I nearly forgot on this one. This would be setting up again.

How do we ethically measure success?

[00:51:01] Nathan Wrigley: I, want to forget this one. I'd love to live in a world where I didn't have to think about this one.

[00:51:09] David Waumsley: So I, mean, I've, put down here, I think it's worth discussing this 'cause this would be a sort of afterthought a lot of the time. So you would say whether you're going to do user testing now, I've actually put a little article in there once you go to this page, which actually gives you a how you could do the simplest of user testing where you just get maybe three to five people.

Three.

yeah. and, you just go and ask 'em to do a few things and watch where their mouse goes and try and get some feedback. So I've got a whole setup for that. So that might be something that Paul might do, if he can take five new customers or something who prepared to give him half an hour on a Zoom call or something like that.

Good luck with

[00:51:51] Nathan Wrigley: that.

[00:51:56] David Waumsley: and analytics, again, this is something that I would discuss at the beginning if it's needed at all. And, if you are and you want to look at your analytics and you think you're going to use those, are you going to go for something like, Oh, I don't think it's written plausible. It should be saying on there.

Sorry, my, oh,

[00:52:15] Nathan Wrigley: okay. Yeah, I know

[00:52:16] David Waumsley: what

[00:52:16] Nathan Wrigley: you meant.

[00:52:17] David Waumsley: Plausible analytics, I think it's called, is the, privacy first. No cookies tool or you've got Google Analytics where if you are in Europe, you might have to be wary about using anyway. Certainly if you are, you would need to make sure that you've got a popup form that comes up on your website and says, I consent to my data going off to.

Google and going off to the us Yeah. Yeah. So, so all those sort of things. And I think this testing and tracking is a good conversation to be having early, what's your privacy policies? What's your stance on cookies use of dark patterns, whether you are against this, whether you are or not, going to have things like tracking, hidden tracking pixels or whether you use, which I did for some time, some session replay tools.

Microsoft Clarity

[00:53:05] Nathan Wrigley: was, yeah, I tried that until I realised that I never ever looked at them. So it was obviously pointless, but Yeah.

[00:53:12] David Waumsley: Yeah. Well, exactly, that's what I found. I think pretty much everybody I used to set up with analytics, but I think. There would be only a handful out of, well over a hundred clients that I know of.

There'd only been maybe about five of them, whoever really did look at their analytics.

[00:53:29] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:53:29] David Waumsley: And when they did, it was only for a certain period of time and then it would be left for years again.

[00:53:34] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:53:34] David Waumsley: So

[00:53:35] Nathan Wrigley: somebody got a memo that they needed to give a pres presentation to the board and analytics and so suddenly, oh, let's analyse the analytics and off they go.

Yep. Okay. Yeah,

[00:53:47] David Waumsley: and there are other ways of doing that, which I hope to cover. I mean, we're going on forever if I cover all of the slides in this. But in that you would put the alternatives in there because at the end of the day, you can get quite a lot of information by just measuring what comes into you and measuring.

What you can already sign up to. If you are, Google Search Console, or Bing, it will tell you a lot of information about the traffic anyway.

[00:54:11] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. '

[00:54:11] David Waumsley: cause most people have signed up to it. And finally, last section would be in this higher, level, would be governance. Who's responsible for what? and this would cover sort of levels of permissions that anybody would have to say a CMS if it was a WordPress site on this one, or to GitHub or GitLab.

If it's, something which I'd probably be doing these days, how they might have access even to this guide, as well. So who would have that? Okay. review schedules, that maybe not one at all, but it's worth thinking about how often you're going to review whether your site needs an update in some form or another.

And what you're going to audit. you're going to look, one of the things you might be looking at, which is non-intrusive. You might be looking at where your keywords are positioned. There's tools, plenty of those where you can say, I'm trying to rank for linkage share plumbing. Let's see how we rank.

and you might want to check those every so often. And then the, there's the legal things, again, a page for that which really just needs to reinforce what laws you need to follow for where your website is and the size of your business, in terms of accessibility and GDPR. Okay. yeah. And finally, this is just a couple of things on this slide, which would have their own slides, which is, change log, who's tracking what and how.

And then a decision framework would be the last thing about. Well, what's not covered in these guidelines and what happens if someone gets hit by a bus, which is my thing at the moment.

[00:55:45] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. You can keep referring to the boss. Poor.

[00:55:48] David Waumsley: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:49] Nathan Wrigley: Poor David.

[00:55:52] David Waumsley: I know, I'm, well, I'm well in my sixties now and I'm already

[00:55:56] Nathan Wrigley: be a boss.

It

[00:55:57] David Waumsley: could

[00:55:57] Nathan Wrigley: be something else. Exactly.

[00:56:03] David Waumsley: So, yeah, and I think it's always forgotten about. I mean, I think certainly who updates what is one and one of the biggest hassles with my, I set up the site for somebody, I think I'm in charge of it. 'cause my job is to do the updating and to make sure that their software's running.

But we've never really finalised that conversation. Who's responsible? So I'm really surprised when they give access to somebody who's able to change my plugins and do stuff. Right.

[00:56:27] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well it's a good idea to get that written down then. Nice.

[00:56:30] David Waumsley: Yeah. Yeah, so that's the idea. I dunno if this has done a very good job.

I'm sure it's probably painful for anyone listening to this, but, I'll put a link to what I'm working on and you'll see how this keeps, changing over time. But yes, there are about

[00:56:46] Nathan Wrigley: 50 odd pages and obviously each of those table of contents pages that we've just spent the time looking at. I think there were 14 of them or something like that.

yeah, 13 of them. They link to subsequent pages, which make 50 in total. I, would definitely go and have a look at it. And we said that the links would be buried in the YouTube, comments and ju just, I'll just pop it on the screen. Sorry, David, it looks like you wanted to say something and then we've

[00:57:14] David Waumsley: Yeah, no, I'll just put the link to our.

Where we'll put this on our website. And in our website I'll put a link to, this. So, yeah.

[00:57:24] Nathan Wrigley: Well, I'll just quickly do this because I might as well, so the website itself, which we've mentioned, it's on the screen the entire time, but I'll do it anyway. So it's no script show. the YouTube channel is that, but that's feels superfluous.

'cause presumably if you're watching this, you've already discovered that. So anyway, and, this episode will be found here. No script, no show slash number 2 9 29. And yeah, that's a body of work you've got there. David, you've been, really busy. let's hope you get some feedback about it.

Let's hope people drop into

[00:58:01] David Waumsley: the Yeah, it be nice. We don't generally get anything here, but it was just nice to just get your initial feedback on it anyway. Yeah. Just to see if it's, a big thing, but the idea is to keep it, A level where you could cover the 10 slides if you like, the main element with a, client and give 'em an overview without

[00:58:20] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:58:20] David Waumsley: But as you want to dig into each thing, then you can get more specific with some notes. And for me, it's a place to store everything that I've been learning all this time. 'cause it always comes up, every time you go to a new website and that you're thinking, oh, what was that site where they had all the collections of all the icons that you can get for free out there?

[00:58:39] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah.

[00:58:40] David Waumsley: Where have I kept that to? The idea is to have this one central hub.

[00:58:44] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. It's some, for

[00:58:45] David Waumsley: me

[00:58:46] Nathan Wrigley: it's on Google Drive folder or some deleted folder, which is on a backup dis somewhere, or, yeah. Yeah. I get it. that's, amazing. I really am totally blown away by the amount of work you've done there.

So, one last time, no script show slash 2 9 29. If you want to find out more. is that it? Are we done for that one then do you see?

[00:59:07] David Waumsley: I think we are done. Yeah. And I dunno when we'll be next on, or what we'll be doing because well a month today we should be together.

[00:59:15] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, you might be able to, might be able to do it with one camera.

That'd be fun. Assuming I can actually get, to India. We'll wait and see on that. But yeah, in which case I will bid you and I will, we'll be back soon at some point. Take care.

[00:59:31] David Waumsley: Yeah. Thank you. Bye

[00:59:34] Nathan Wrigley: bye-Bye.