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She has also stated elsewhere that she is surprised by the sexism that exists in the Republician party. I wouldn’t necessarily trust her mental faculties.
That’s an excessively nice way of saying that she’s an absolute fucking moron.
I see people on Lemmy who keep trying to paint her as some kind of opportunist who broke with Trump because she sees which way the wind is blowing. But no, she’s only broken with Trump because she only just recently finally got it through her skull that he was lying about the things she supported him for. She wasn’t in on the grift; she was among those who fell the hardest for it!
Yeah. She was a true believer. She wanted to go to Washington and expose an evil conspiracy about elite pedophiles who were puppets of Israel, and she found exactly what she was looking for. But it turned out to be the team she was playing for.
Man I hate this timeline
I mean, MTG being a true believer and getting elected is not anywhere near the worst part of this timeline.
Even Fetterman might be worse.
Aww, not AGAIN
I mean…I guess at least she’s a “genuine” moron
german has a beautiful word for that:
naturblöd
(naturally stupid, but sound a lot like “naturblond”, which is just naturally blonde)
Isn’t she a horrible person too? I think she’s just a rat, now trying to jump a sinking ship.
Of course she’s a horrible person! But that doesn’t mean she can’t also be a gullible nitwit who was duped by other horrible people.
My purpose is not to redeem MTG, but to point out how comprehensively irredeemable she truly is. She isn’t just stupid or mean; she’s both stupid and mean.
She was a true believer.
Fuck her. Don’t forget all the hateful shit she has spouted up until she splintered from Trump, trying to start her own faction of the hateful fascists.
This is short sighted.
You can hate someone and still agree when they say something you agree with. If you dismiss a point just because of who said it, you’re showing you don’t actually care whether the point is true.”
If you just hate someone cause “oh they’re on the other side from me” does that really make you better than the other side who does the same?
Edit: this seems to be setting a lot of people off, I consider myself a fairly logical person. If you can explain to me, in good faith and with a calm disposition, why should I think differently, I will listen.
It depends. If they are an obvious grifter like MTG, hell yes I’m better than her. She has shown no contrition, no growth, no regret for the horrible policies she’s pushed forth. This is not a person who wants to genuinely make the country a better place, she’s a piece of shit who senses a better deal elsewhere.
This is like seeing a person willing to cheat with you and thinking, “I should start a genuine relationship with this person; they would surely never cheat on me.”
Okay let’s remove the “are we better than her” part, do you think that her stance here is entirely null and void because of the person she is? Would you change your mind if Bernie said it?
I’m not saying you have to start a relationship with her or start pioneering her cause, but if you’re going to discount a point you might agree with because of the person, what’s the point of making policies in the first place? We might as well hit full send and send politics to where I see it going, just put the candidates on a tinder like app with no more than a tweet of what they’re about, have them put on a red or blue tie and be done with it. No need for nuance, just vote based on looks, hell, we don’t even need the blurbs at the bottom.
You do not, under any circumstance, gotta hand it to Hitler. The nuance here is that MTG is a piece of shit. We must be intolerant of the intolerant because welcoming them and accepting them society provides an opening for them to spread their anti social beliefs. Before they are welcomed into polite society, they must show that they have changed and are compatible with polite society.
It is ok to have disagreements with others, so long as the disagreements aren’t something like, “we disagree if gay people should be allowed to get married”. People who hold such anti social beliefs must not be allowed a foothold. People like MTG use the more sane policies as cover to infiltrate and spread their actual beliefs, like Jewish Space Lasers.
You are too focused on the trees to notice that the forest is garbage. The nuance here is not that MTG has some good takes. The nuance here is that MTG will say and do anything to advance her anti social agenda.
My man, if I’m focused on the trees you’re sitting there staring at a leaf. I feel like I’ve been pretty on point about what I’m trying to say here. You can agree with something someone you hate said. If you can’t, you’re letting emotions take over logic
If you can’t, you’re letting emotions take over logic
MTG is a politician, not a logician, and people’s responses to her bigoted ass don’t have to be restrained to pure logic.
All you control in this life is your own response to stimuli, MTG isn’t making you be illogical, you are.
I am with you
I appreciate it but Im also highly aware that nobody is going to be changing their mind in this discussion. I just hate to see a smart place like Lemmy devolve into what I would call “dumb politics”
Well, Hitler wanted every German to do sports and be fit and was against smoking. He was a monster but in those things he was on the right side.
Okay let’s remove the “are we better than her” part, do you think that her stance here is entirely null and void because of the person she is?
Yes, actually. 100% I think that.
Do you not understand the fact that a grifter or opportunist saying something makes it completely meaningless?
Like, hell, do you look at stuff like JD Vance saying “If you want your kid to go and fight in some stupid globalist war, vote for Joe Biden” and not understand that he’s completely full of shit?
I understand that you think that, but I have a feeling I’m less emotionally invested in this than you
Lmao what? 😂
Secret cheat code to win any argument: just say the other person is being emotional.
Who’s trying to win? I assumed we were just debating
Who’s doing that?
She created this problem, and she’s pretending to be some voice of reason now that it suits her ambitions. She’s welcome to change sides - that’s her prerogative - but nobody owes her respect or forgiveness. She has been legitimately heinous and bares massive responsibility for the suffering the world is going through today. She wants redemption and welcome into a position of respect among reasonable people after blaming wildfires on Jewish space lasers and working against climate action. She’s not entitled to a leadership position in the fight against Trump and I refuse to acknowledge her.
If she’s going to go back to pulling maga bullshit because people remember things she said and did and hold her to account for it? Then she was never worth having as an ally in the first place.
You can also hate someone and just give no fucks whether they are right or wrong or are in agreement with. That bitch should get cancelled already. I dunno what PR firm she hired, but they must be worth it.
If you just hate someone cause “oh they’re on the other side from me” does that really make you better than the other side who does the same?
No. OP clearly stated because ‘all the hateful shit she has said.’
I’ve seen piles of shit that are better than MTG. And occasionally I wasn’t looking I stepped in a pile of it.
Let me ask this, if she said “hitler is bad” do you write that off or agree with it? Of course this is a fictional, absurd example. But this is the best way I can just lay out my argument with an example.
I believe you should be able to take a statement like “trump is insane” and agree with it, without getting hung up on who said it, regardless of them being a piece of shit.
But I also understand these are intense times, and maybe everyone doesn’t separate the voice from the speaker like I do.
“On the other side from me”? Oh please, she is a transphobic piece of shit whose “side” wants me dead or worse. I do not give a shit what she says. She is not, has never been, and never will be a leftist just because she said some mean shit about trump once.
Whose talking about switching sides? Sir or madam, i keep repeating this point. You can acknowledge you agree with something someone said even if you hate them. If you can’t, you’re prioritizing thinking emotionally instead of logically
You are also going to lose if you reject allies, with your enemies whispering whom to reject.
Israel is the devil, and the ledt lets them play us like a fiddle. Off of each other.
‘Allies’ is an interesting word choice considering what an over the top anti-queer bigot MTG is.
Israel is the devil.
Fuck all to do with whether the American politician this post is about is a piece of shit.
If you just hate someone cause “oh they’re on the other side from me” does that really make you better than the other side who does the same?
When the other side are discount nazis, yes it does make me better than them.
You’re assuming she’s genuine, when her entire history warns against making that assumption. If she wants to prove her worth, she can leave the Republican party, declare herself an independent, and caucus with the Democrats.
She won’t, because it’s all a grift and she’s hoping to con all the people who are ok with looking the other way at child rape, but not at rising oil prices.
If she wants to prove her worth, she can leave the Republican party, declare herself an independent, and caucus with the Democrats.
How about, if she wants to prove her worth, she can retire from politics forever, give all she has to the poor, and spend her weekends volunteering at soup kitchens.
I’m not opposed to forgiveness or giving people second chances, unless that second chance means putting them in a leadership role after they’ve already fucked up in such a role. At that point, it’s just failing to hold powerful people accountable. Are there not enough people in the country to find someone who doesn’t have a track record like hers?
Oh I’m right there with you. She’s completely untrustworthy.
I assume that she’s seen how Trump supporters treat Republicans who dare to contradict their Dear Leader, and she simply decided that she’d rather step away from Congress and potentially receive fewer death threats. Nobody knows the lengths a cult will go to better than someone who has just escaped.
If I’m being extra generous, I could say maybe she knows what happens to representatives who don’t toe the party line, so she stepped down to avoid cuts to her constituents’ services. But that might be giving her too much credit.
I think she is already in a relationship.
Still a transphobe
If she thinks she can face turn and get support from non-MAGA voters just by making the right noises, she’s in for a nasty awakening. We don’t fall in line the way right wing voters do, it’s literally our biggest weakness electorally.
If you think you can take the country back with just your allies here on the left, rejecting everyone for lack of purity as if you already won which by the way you lost for that fucking reason and are currently being played like a fiddle by fucking Israel played off against people we agree with on issues then it is you that is lacking in understanding my friend. Sweet dreams genius.
So your big plan is… Side with any cynical opportunist who flatters you.
Perfect. I’ll watch from a safe distance.
Also, MTG is not cynical, she was a True Believer.
Cooperate on what you agree on.
Or reject everyone except for the 10 percent that have not offended your delicate sensibilities yet. Because that’s working so fucking well for us. Isn’t it? Isn’t it? Answer me.
You’re talking to me like we’ve spoken before. I don’t recall anything between us that would justify your characterization of me, nor the mildly amusing abuse.
In any case, looking over your other comments I surmise that we agree more than we don’t. It would be hilarious to speak to one another like bitter enemies then, wouldn’t it? But I don’t have the energy.
We do disagree about what’s to be done about Greene, but since I can’t vote in her district you needn’t concern yourself. Sorry, I trust neither the truly evil nor the easily deluded.
Don’t I know it. Yet preventing fascists from seizing absolute power is more important than our feelings. We are almost there, we have like one more chance to stop them and you motherfuckers are blowing it, not so much you as the ones that are going to shout down everybody not supporting Gavin Newsom, nevertheless, we’ve precious little time to organize and act together instead of being played off each other as we are in this situation. They are bringing Israel to America. It’s been a long time coming.
But it does matter, we need to be able to work with people we agree on issues with even if we don’t agree with them on every single thing. Because that is how they play us off each other in case you haven’t noticed. Israel and the US government is directly involved then turning us against people we agree with on some issues because we disagree with them on other issues. Why do you think that is?
Well, I emigrated. I still do vote and I can’t look away, but that’s the extent of my involvement. My family and my wife’s was only born and raised American for about one generation each.
Once I understood the country well enough in a historical context, I couldn’t bear to be there for what I think is next. I don’t think you’re wrong that there’s a chance, but I don’t love the odds.
I know how to be civil with people I disagree with. I worked next to a Trumper for nine years, and was able to be civil almost every day. She loved to talk about how her dad was in the Klan. I rather think my problem is I’m too civil.
Interesting that she references following Jesus, being kind to your neighbors and accept people for who they are . … yet this POS did and does everything her in power to keep LGBTQ+ people, brown people, people with “funny” accents, down and persecuted.
It’s great to see cracks in the MAGA world but she is not a good person.
Because to this kind of people “neighbors” are only those who look and thing like themselves.
“My neighbours are all rich white millionaires. I practice Christianity by always being nice to rich white millionaires.”
The fact that people still feel this way about MTG saying something correct really just goes to show that our social discourse level still hasn’t evolved past judging arguments on the basis of the person making them. Its getting better enough that we can at least say “MTG is right about this” but it still makes people uncomfortable and feel like they need to explain “oh but so stupid and evil and stupid and dumb otherwise of course”. The disclaimer is not necessary. The fact that one person can hold a variety of correct and incorrect views should not be this surprising anymore
We should be vigilant about the root ideology behind the correct view though. MTG doesn’t like Israel because the supremacist state they’re building happens to claim it’s for Jewish people. Leftists should argue against Israel from a broader principle against supremacist states in general. We can try to leverage the fact that MTG (and Tucker Carlson) are able to break the mainstream narrative of unconditional support for Israel, but we should never give credibility to anyone who comes to that view out of anti-semitism.
For sure. I guess to me the idea of “people can have a correct conclusion for wrong reasons” is gonna be a harder social sell than “people can have both correct and incorrect ideas”. I’m trying to start small 😭
The fact that one person can hold a variety of correct and incorrect views should not be this surprising anymore
I think the phrase “incorrect view” is about to hurt its back with how much heavy lifting it’s doing in this case.
It’s one thing to disagree about how the government should be run or to hold outdated views on social issues.
It’s another thing to claim that the California forest fires were started by Jewish space lasers, or that the US government controls the weather, or that a school shooting that claimed the lives of 20 first graders was a false flag.
Her taking a stance on the Epstein files is commendable, but isn’t it kind of mitigated by the time she said that anyone who voted to confirm Supreme Court justice Ketanji Brown Jackson is “pro-pedophile”?
I’m not saying she should be silenced or dismissed, at least not while she’s on the right side of history, but let’s not pretend this is just any old Republican suddenly spouting reasonable takes.
I’m not sure I understand you - what heavy lifting is the phrase doing? The views you listed are incorrect, so to me it seems like a perfectly reasonable and accurate phrase? Are you saying that the phrase doesn’t go far enough, and it should be something like “wildly incorrect and insane delusions”? Because if so, while I don’t disagree with that characterization, its still ultimately an incorrect view and properly described already. This is kind of exactly my point - feeling like we need a more exaggerated characterization of her incorrect views is a symptom of having trouble believing that someone can hold both correct and incorrect views.
Frankly, it does need suspicion. She’s only sane now because Trump dropped her like a flaming dog turd
Yes, her reason for making the claim is suspicious, but that does not have any bearing on the legitimacy of the claim itself. The legitimacy of her other claims also have no bearing on it. This is exactly why I avoided making an emphatic characterization of her incorrectness - because doing so could only be to appease the mentality which my original comment is saying we should reject.
Yes, I’m saying that there’s a difference between “incorrect” and “wildly incorrect and insane delusions”. She was so far away from reality that we shouldn’t give her the benefit of the doubt any time soon.
But what about any of my statements implies we should be giving her a benefit of the doubt? And why would being more emphatic about her degree of wrongness have any bearing on that anyways? I feel, and I hope I’m expressing this as respectfully and open-mindedly as possible, that what you’re taking issus with here is exactly proving my point that “our social discourse level still hasn’t evolved past judging arguments on the basis of the person making them.”
I’m not judging the arguments. I’m continuing to judge the person. If it were a different person - almost any other person - then I’d have more grace. I agree with your position in the majority of cases. Liz Cheney, for example. Hell, even Dick Cheney.
But some cases are so extreme that I think it’s ok to keep expressing doubts even as we agree with them.
This a completely wrong view. Nobody is judging arguments based on the person making them here, we agree when she says things that are true. However, in politics, it is all to easy for someone to say things people want to hear in order to achieve power, and then use that power to pursue an agenda completely contrary to that. Look at Fetterman or Sinema. These people are opportunists who are only interested in advancing their own careers, cannot be trusted, and we should make efforts to root them out an expose them to avoid the mistake of investing them with power, because they can be utterly disasterous otherwise.
The disclaimer is entirely necessary, because people need to understand the fact that she’s just co-opting these talking points for the purpose of advancing her career.
This whole perspective of “people change” or “we need to be forgiving” does not apply, at all, to politicians. If a politician uses their position of power to do evil shit, and they come to regret it, then my forgiveness is completely contingent on them retiring from politics forever and never again seeking a leadership position. What, are there not enough people in the country to find someone who doesn’t already have a proven track record of doing shitty things in office?
You ain’t agreeing with her, she’s angling for her next grift.
Probably going to try to run as a Democrat.
Even a dumbass trips over the truth sometimes.
Another day, another time I don’t understand why Magic the Gathering has to do with Trump.
She did this.
That’s why we don’t like it.
She has decades of atonement to do before any of us see her as anything but Trump’s cheerleader gone sour for selfish reasons (she knows he’s toxic to her long term career goals).
My view is that we don’t have to accept her as one of us in order to leverage her usefulness on this matter. That is, we can continue to condemn her actions while also recognising that on this issue, we are temporarily aligned
Edit: to be clear, I am wholly in agreement with you. My comment is intended in a “yes, and…” kind of way
And if she keeps working towards being better about things even when people don’t just accept her apology that means shes doing the right thing.
Like thats the hallmark of a good person. Does the right thing even if its not always easy or popular. So we align now see where she can help and see if she changes.
We dont need to shun her if she isn’t doing damage, while we dont need to be friends with her for her to be better.
She’s as toxic as him. The hatred she spewed as his ‘cheerleader’ was unacceptable, and no pivoting will help her.
Just because we’re sharing the same viewpoint for once does not mean she’s still not a vile piece of shit.
This is just a “broken clock is correct twice a day” kind of thing.
I don’t check the news an awful lot, so every single time I read this acronym I immediately think “Magic the Gathering” and get confused for a minute. Every time. I cannot think of a solution, forever will Magic the Gathering confuse politics.
Only until this turd gets flushed away.
God a couple years ago when she was in the midst of all of her heavy maga rants I saw this bitch on vacation out in Colorado at a Costco you can bet I flipped her right the fuck off and so did several other people that were there. Needless to say it’s throwing me off that she’s actually being sane and reasonable in this time. I think it finally got to the point because of Trump going against her that she realized she wasn’t going to make as much money and she hit that retirement or she now gets a pension from the Senate and so she didn’t give a shit anymore cuz she’s now going to be making money the rest of her life from the government.
Are you mixing her up with Lauren Boebert? MTG is a Georgia rep. Not that I blame you for mixing them up, these MAGA women all go for the Stepford wife look.
Nope you know people can travel out of the state they live in right? I was out off of my state, at the Costco up in Gypsum.
Considering Boebert is from CO, you can kinda understand their confusion tho. Especially if you don’t realize how much tourism happens there.
I’d prefer Laura Boebert’s porn doppelganger to be in Congress. She’s probably a significantly better person
What’s the name so I know to avoid her?
Brought to you by: The Overton Window™️
If she’s cast out from maga is she an Overton widow?
I understand she’s absolutely disingenuous but I don’t think she reaching out to the left, she’s reach out to the never Trump republicans.
I don’t think she’s disingenuous. I think all her crazy beliefs are actual beliefs. We’re all just amazed because a tiny sliver of truth managed to penetrate her defences.
As for the never-Trump Republicans. This is a case where the enemy of my enemy is still most definitely my enemy. I’m sure that the never-Trump GOP feels the same way. If a rabid dog starts biting its Nazi owner, we might cheer it on. But, that doesn’t mean we’re going to let that rabid dog get any closer to us.
The only rational thing she’s doing is trying to con the Dem for a seat at their table thinking people will forget the unhinged shit she have said
She wants to be the next Dick Cheney. I can’t wait to hear all the takes of, “What’s wrong with Gavin Newsom campaigning with MTG?”
